From: gdtob dwnunder <gd2bdwnunder@yahoo.com>
Date: 4 January 2007 9:48:42 PM
Subject: Re: [ETSA] Re: Speech by President of Partidu Republikanu
Reply-To: ETSA@yahoogroups.com
For all of Ken's good points it nevertheless remains a bad idea.
Yes Abel, under Indonesian rule districts had a lot of autonomy...they also had lots of corruption, lots of Indonesian bureaucrats syphoning money and private enterprise profits to their own pockets and...oh yeah, as pointed out in the CAVR report....hundreds of thousands dead in the Indonesian province of East Timor...mostly Timorese as you already know.
As for the presidential system in Indonesia, it is not so centralised and not so executive as one might think. In fact, this is a much more complex issue, as is the nature of the political system in Timor Leste, that because of the necessarily short commentary which only focuses on scoring a few points cannot be discussed in a forum such as this with the level of intellectual rigour it requires. Similarly, the ways for building a viable and peaceful state in which all of Timor's citizens can benefit cannot be answered here, let's not pretend any of us are doing anymore than scoring a few points...myself included.
Abel Pires da Silva <abel_piresds@yahoo.com> wrote:
Abel Pires da Silva <abel_piresds@yahoo.com> wrote:
Good Idea Ken. We have less people to govern then before 1999, but look at out government: We have thousands of cars, Ministers complete with their vice minister (two?), general secretary, Secretary of state, all managing a single department. Two much bureaucracy..
Get rid of PM, Vice ministers, secretary of states, and Give autonomy to the districts to take care of them selves. During Indonesian time, districts enjoyed more autonomy then now. Sadly people like Alkatiri wants to centralise everything in their hands, even decision to let their minister to choose words in their speech....
On top of this people like Ana Pessoa does not want to speak Tetun when talking to the people and use an INTERPRETER instead. But guess what even worst? She was forced to correct her interpreter in Tetun for wrongly interpret her...What a silly administration is that?
33 comments:
It is a very destructive move. It will endager the survival of the nation. Many people always judge and disire East Timor in their own context.I know that the goverment system must reflect East Timor historical, social and cultural process.
If all East Timor people have good knowledge and understanding about development, they all will realise that the pattern of development that is approriate for East Timor.
I tell you all in this internet, Fretilin, after lay down the modern government and constitutional government, has establsih a solid strategic economic direction for East Timor. Fretilin is the only party to defend and struggle what is right for oppressed, disadvtange people- Maubere.
The problem is that most of East Timor people mask their face with the democracy and under the banner of freedom to take each other throat. There are significant factors that contribute to the over all situation in East Timor which I will never supply in this media.
What East Timor people, specially anti- elected democratic government leaders and followers, should do is to give an stable chance to Fretilin to lead with dignity and in peaceful environment.
I believe there is no one party in East Timor will solve all problem in two or five years if they are elected or replaced Fretilin. That is impossible.
The most dangerous now is that if the unique party, Fretilin, has experienced this situation, it would be impossible for East Timor to have an stable government.
Xanana who is the one has a major role to create peace and sustain peace has been found by UN report as a divisive figure. So, Fretilin does not him any longer.
in my view, all Fretilin leaders must together to come with another alternative. Probably, Fretilin must lead East Timor for the period of 10 t0 30 years. Fretilin must produce a great educated young people of the nation. After that years Fretilin must totally out from the all process and the new political party must emerge under the consideration human resoutces, progress and stablity.
in my conclusion, the stable government for 10 t0 30 years is a real need. Only Fretilin is the best party for Fretilin.
Please foward this message to other internet
Loriku
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Anonymous said...
It is a very destructive move. It will endager the survival of the nation. Many people always judge and disire East Timor in their own context.I know that the goverment system must reflect East Timor historical, social and cultural process.
If all East Timor people have good knowledge and understanding about development, they all will realise that the pattern of development that is approriate for East Timor.
I tell you all in this internet, Fretilin, after lay down the modern government and constitutional government, has establsih a solid strategic economic direction for East Timor. Fretilin is the only party to defend and struggle what is right for oppressed, disadvtange people- Maubere.
The problem is that most of East Timor people mask their face with the democracy and under the banner of freedom to take each other throat. There are significant factors that contribute to the over all situation in East Timor which I will never supply in this media.
What East Timor people, specially anti- elected democratic government leaders and followers, should do is to give an stable chance to Fretilin to lead with dignity and in peaceful environment.
I believe there is no one party in East Timor will solve all problem in two or five years if they are elected or replaced Fretilin. That is impossible.
The most dangerous now is that if the unique party, Fretilin, has experienced this situation, it would be impossible for East Timor to have an stable government.
Xanana who is the one has a major role to create peace and sustain peace has been found by UN report as a divisive figure. So, Fretilin does not him any longer.
in my view, all Fretilin leaders must together to come with another alternative. Probably, Fretilin must lead East Timor for the period of 10 t0 30 years. Fretilin must produce a great educated young people of the nation. After that years Fretilin must totally out from the all process and the new political party must emerge under the consideration human resoutces, progress and stablity.
in my conclusion, the stable government for 10 t0 30 years is a real need. Only Fretilin is the best party for Fretilin- "Fretilin is the people of East Timor and the people of East Timor is Fretilin" Nicolao Lobato
Please foward this message to other internet
Loriku
Hei Lorico,
You might have been flying non-stop to the point that you passed unnotice of things that in reallity are not anonymous. When did you adhere to FRETILIN? Please go and check.... those faking FRETILINs on the throne were drafting a law to allow Ministers distributing guns in times they of crisis. Just luckly.... that satanic law was still to be submitted to the Parliament for approval. They were confident the majority of "entoxicated" FRETILIN in the Parliament would certainly approve it. But GOD is Great. He delayed until the crisis happened just for not served as justification. Otherwise That kind of DEMOCRAZY in most countries of Africa would have been succeeded to be implanted in Timor-Leste. So bro.. the Genuine FRETILIN is not the one led by ALKALU. I think Vicente mau Bosy might be less intelectual than ALKALU but he could at least show his heart to desire for a good future for the people. FRETILIN is corrupted already. There needed another movement of CNRT like to save the nation. Dont be blind and deaf. Be yourself on your own foot.
Fuan boot
CNRT?
Despite we have different views, what we need is that we must live with dignity as people of the new nation.
CNRT has constructed a lot of crimes. Many Falintil and great leaders of Fretilin were arrested and killed by TNI when Xanana knew they apposse Xanana's view. I don't want go into much detail.
What xanana wanted was that autonomy transition. At that time many who really involved in political process understand that autonomy transition was political trap- whether it was for good and bad. It could take longer time for indepedence, made situation more worse or united with Indonesia. it was CNRT's game. Fteilin leaders and generation kept eyes on them.
At that time comdanate Lere publiclly condemmed Xanana while Xanana was in prison. At that time Xanana has a romantic relationship with many girls behind the bar and he continuosly advocate for autonomy transition. You may still remember Lere's letter published in Suara TimorTimor before. Lere condemmed him as a traitor of East Timor people and Falintil.
in 1998 CNRT under xanana's leadership decided to drag East Timor people into Autnomy Transition. At that time Abilio Osorio and his group tried to raise this issue with resistance young leaders and old leaders. You can see in local newspaper and Indonesia newspapers how joyful they were.
I don't to go more further to destroy my nation. But, one thing that i personally knew was that Xanana cried devastastely after his strategy for autonmy transition was fail after Habibie countered his strategy anounced two options; autonomy or seperate from Indonesia. Habbie does not want any political drama.You may confuse i just don't want to reveal here.
Soon after the anouncemnt, Xanana called Fretilin leaders on phone at 0.500 pm. oclock Dili Time. He spoke to Jose Reis to tell his commrade to forgive Xanana. Xanana said he had committed a wrong strategy. Xanana asked Fretilin leaders not to condem Xanana. I still remember what he said, " please don't abadon me and please keep counting on on me." what he wanted was to keep him in power.
Another day, a member of CNRT accused Mahuno and Mahudo not to cooperate with CNRT. Mahudo told him, " Fretilin who is the one instructed Xanana to lead CNRT. Fretilin choose Xanana." all that strategy was Fretilin's strategy, but Xanana's now turn things arround it was him made that change. Many other things.
I don't want to destroy Xanana in this site. I admire him, but i never follow him as a great leader. The great leaders never misuse his power to destroy his fellwo who stands for the same course even tought him how to be a great man for the nation.
I don't want say anymore. I want you to be proud of yourself. You are right, but the true Fretilin never want to destroy each other.
But Freilin's generation,who don't any political ambition, they still respect and trust Fretilin and their leaders. For sure they are not perfect but they had stood before people to turn an island into a nation. now the republic of East Timor.
All that happen such Fretilin and Fretilin mudanca is constructed by Xanana.
I don't want go too far. If Xanana plays this sort of politics he will pay price dearly. Don't blame other, he is the one establish war.
CNRT was a part of thr process. CNRT does not have principle to establish a nation. CNRT was small part of the process.
I admire him, but i never follow everyhting he said.
He sometime clever, but sometime he is very idiot and he has assassination character rather a peaceful man.
After he tried to destroy Fretilin in many ways and caused the democratically elected govermnet into a srious trouble and he used the BBC report to disolve parliament. is that way he respects East Timorese people?
The real motive of xanana is that he is the one who create East Timor history. but he was the one who establsih crime and war.
Fretilin-
The real Frteilin is one Fretilin. Fretilin is never two. Fretilin is never ambushed by enemies strategy. The fundamental political culture of Freilin is united in the face of political division and severe difficulties. If you don't agree with Marrii, let's play a great political process within the party. how many times you fail to conquer Marii, let's try until you win, but not by destroying Fretilin by estyablishing another political party- Fretilin mudanca. Fretilin leaders and generation must together under one flag of Fretilin and under one roof of Fretilin. no matter what whappen inside Fretilin. It is an internal probelm, let's solve internal trouble step bt step.
If Fretilin mudanca can't solve internal problem of the party, how they are going to solve East Timor problem as a nation.
Marii is the man, toughest and highly principled man. He is trully man of East Timor. He is not perfect, but defend what is right for East Timor people.
CNRT was a part of the process. Those who established CNRT before, they never had a ideas to turn CNRT into party to againts aother political party. The right things to do is that Xanana and Ramos return to Fretilin, sit together to present a new platform and place Xanana and Ramos Horta in an significant role.
Xanana has tried many forms. Now CNRT. What else if he fails again?
Loriku
Hei Brother Lorico, Advising Xanana and Horta back to FRETILIN? This is what Mari and his crony don't wish. Because if the 2 return to FRETILIN Mari and the other will be loosing position. I really believe they don't want to return as they are conscious from other perspective that Democracy will die, bacause beside removing Mari and his Crony all small paries will cease and adhere to FRETILIN. They believe and I too that FRETILIN was a liberation movement and not a political party. Those movements struggling for liberation like in Africa always transform themselves to political party bringing along with the guerrila army as their military wing. You know what happened? see Mozambique, Angola and many other countries. They never tolerate the imerging of another political force. Remember what Mari told the public? 50 years of reign!!!! This is what they attempt to achieve by fomenting the most recent chaos. By involving F-FDTL unconstitutionally they will destroy it. Firing the the 600 soldiers irregularly had consist itself a deliberated ethnic division. The Minister of Interior tirelessly sow the seeds of loromonu-lorosae within PNTL with the intention to destroy PNTL. You know what they have in mind? destroy all these institutions because they were Xananist and create 2 other forces afiliated to FRETILIN. Here the 50 years of reign would be safe.
So I believe you are a young generation you must be stand on your own foot. You must stretch your vision beyond our boundaries to see and be able to judge. I would invite you to reflect and see the importance of placing FRETILIN to the History along with all former political parties. Let us create new political parties for not beeing continuously captives of the past. If the old generation keep on showing their rivalries the let us gather forces to get rid of them because you and I as well as the entire people of TL fought for this liberation. If we continually exalt them then it will be taken as proof that we the young generation can do nothing and must depend on them. One thing I would add more for you to think wisely... I am a FRETILIN adept and I will continue to be. But I percieve it must be an ideal not a political party. I did struggle for liberation of my people and not for FRETILIN. You must be militant to a reason not to a simbolism. And for a thourough solution to our problem there must be another political movement not necessarily CNRT, but a movement which could integrate all nation's elements for national rescue.
Fuanboot
Dear all who love East Timor,
Althought you will not agree with my view, it is great things for every intelectual people to understand East Timoresse as people of East Timor.
You can apply sophosticated approach and knowlege to solve East Timor problem, but the ingredient of our progress is a sense of respect and understanding.
To those who are highly educated never think to force your theory, and concepts. East Timor is East Timor. Slowly but sure it is the only way to establsih peace, unity and progress. Adversary, brutal theory and concepts is not East Timor ways of doing things. we are totally different from other countries.
What I think is this the intelectual people must play strategically. Partido republikano is too smart but it is a type of suicide movement.I tell you theorty and practice are two things that are different. if you are East Timoresse, you may heard the ordinary people say, " matenek nia halo halo povu mate barak." There is a sense of distrust among ordinary people. These ordinary is the political base for any political party. In addition, you may know East Timor's people love music. I still remember a song " matenek nia halo-halo povu mate barak." This negativity is strongly rooted. so, you need time and momentun to take the lead.
Remember me in this site, it is not yet time for Partido to appear in this stage. What i understand it that it is a military parade.
The great condition for republikano to appear is to help to play with old generation to put things in order. It is the way party build his credibility and trust not by highly intelectualising programs.
In my understanding the existence of this party is not viable and effective for 5 to 10 years. what if republikano lead at early stage, it only burry your existence that it will be impossible to recover.
You may disagree with me with this. In East Timor, the majority of people make their choice is not only based on what are the programs, but their fundamental question is who lead the party and the composition of the political party. You can see the opponents of Fretilin party. That is the pattern of thinking. if the majority of people think, whichever party wins and whoever lead the party is not the main problem, republikano can take lead now.
So,what I think we need time. I am not highly educated as you guys, but momentun it is important for intelectual party to emerge. For example, you many know the PD party
The great things that must happen at that time, old generation must fix their problem not to make the young generation to suffer.
We admire the effort of all generation to turn East Timor island into a nation, but it is not approriate time to take each other throat.
Xanana and Ramos Horta has a enormous obligation to sit down and talk with Fretilin. But, CNRT versus Fretilin, what I think, will only establish a long life war and the serious humiliation towards Fretilin can only make all of us suffer.
Now, let's reward them to lead, but not forever. Be prepare, but not in a suicide type.
Thankyou guys and i hope this site will be a site for constructive democracy.
I may not right in everything, but let's put our ideas together. We all have experienced the destruction of our homeland. I think we all need to change to target and humiliate people as we all did before.
the site of intellectual people must reflect the existence of intellectual people.
Let's start respect each other and let the old leaders to unite and deliver the basic needs for east Timor.
It is time to reward Fretilin, not humilation and destructive propaganda. It is time to reward those who involve during the struggle rejoin their spirit and sisterbrotherhood.
Le't respect and reward each other.
Thanks guys no obrigado
Um grande abraco
Loriku Aswain
Dear all,
To build CNRT to againts Fretilin, it is to cement a long life war.
Xanana and Ramos Horta has right and obligation to return to Fretilin. If it is really true that Fretilin is a source or some elements within Fretilin become a source destruction, both brothers must return, but never use power to destroy. For Example, CNRT party.
If Xanana force CNRT, I only hope that you remembe me in this site. I may wrong, but it is pontential for a long life war.
But if Xanana and Ramos must play in such way and respect Fretilin and their fellow commrades. I believe we all be in peace.
I don't want to claim that I am right, but let put our ideas and understanding into a test.
If they both don't want to return, let fretilin leaders or their members employ their democratic skills within the party to make change incrementally. Radical change only make people suffer.
Whatever premise of Fretilin mudanca, it is so dangerous to take that direction.
I only can speak to their heart and mind to stay within the game; it is one Fretilin forever.
Fretilin is an inheritage for each individual for those who have really have significant attachment to Fretilin party in many ways.
To see Fretilin exist is a source of healing and many others. No leader live for a long time. The main thing is to sustain peace and let people make their living while wating for leaders to deliver basic needs to the people, for example, oil and gas development that Marri have fought to end to defend that right for East Timor people.
I did not agree whatever Marii has done so far, he is human with his own personallity. But he always stands beyond the people to defend the greatest and rights things for East Timor people.
I only pray that the old leaders will work together as a great team and with high moral as they did before
I never want to see them fight among themsevles and i never want to see people divide them.
Thanks
Loriku Aswain
Dear Loriku, your advise remind me of one thing during the Indonesian military Occupation. The FORSA REPETIL. You talk about intelectualism and that this site would be better for constructive ideas which essentially derives from intelectuals. But you make confuse when at the same time as intelectual you are making efforts to teach people in defending slogans, attributes, heroism of the past without a single mention that reflects a futuristic vision. You said FRETILIN must be recognized, I fully agree with you as I was and continue to be of FRETILIN, but the facts have shown that stake holders of Fretilin are simply using Fretilin to dishonestly achieve their odd ambition. I think if you go through the UN Commission of Inquiry report, as intelectual you'd easily discover what objective the leaders had in mind? And if you say creating another political force would constitute a humiliation to Fretilin, my brother this is not from an intelectual perception. Everybody has the right for association as granted in the Constitution which the majority of Fretilin wrote. What the sin if democratically a new political force come as winer in the election? Please.... stating that it would trigger a long lasting war is a political blackmail which is natural in Africa and not here in TL. If we want to maintain Fretilin as political party surviving eternally then the time was during the last 4 years. Go and check with UNDP, World Bank, NGO's what a huge value of money was channeled to TL apart from our own? What a huge opportunity Fretilin enjoyed that it could be used for the well being of the peole? Why TL is enlisted alongside the poorest countries of the world. Please my friend Lorico I know you have a space in your brain for realistic things. In a democratic society the people is the warrant of the state and government. If Fretilin could during the 4 years be wise enough with focus on people it could have been succeded in granting the prosperity to the peole and in turn this peole would doubtlessly secure it and I believe other political forces would also join forces for the success of Fretilin. But it didn't happen. The people became more and more scracy at the point to remember times of fortune during Indonesian occupation. And this is not the failure of Fretilin but those hands driving Fretilin, importing odd ideologies of exclusivism, corrupt mentalities, arrogance. President Xanana said "they have poisoned Fretilin" and I think this came from a genuine Fretilin. Okey brother, as intelectual don't you think it is time to project the future of Fretilin? A saying in Portuguese you must remember: "Nao ha ditadura que dura" You know what Suharto Regime used to say? It was really strong but in the end fainted and died. It is our close neighbour that consequently has a strong influence on us. We have Australia, Singapore, Philippines, and others with very open & transparent political system sorrounding us. Don't you think as intelectual we should try to stretch our eyes beyond the limmits of our world? The political blackmail that if Fretilin looses there would be never ending war is no longger valid because the globalization will not tolerate this to happen. We are not alone in this world. Please if you are intectual you must think of TL as a whole and not only using Fretilin. And there's a necessity to create a FORSAREPETIL-like organization to study and project the future of Fretilin. Will it sustain as a political Party or as intelectual we propose by presenting strong scientific arguments to put FRETILIN in the history as a Glorious IDEAL of the History of the Liberation of Timor-Leste. Everybody would bow down to FRETILIN as only Fretilin teaches people that Ukun Rasik An is the dignity.
Please reflect and give your opinion.
Fuanboot
Dear Fellow East Timoresse,
Le'ts test our idea. East Timor will be heading too a long life war, it is not blackmail. Althought i will not mention and explain multidementional issues here to make you undertand about this premise. One thing that i can tell you East Timor is a result past construction, divided society and Timor is product of revolution. So, if Xanana play old politics and tried to destroy Fretilin to show that he is the man who create history you will see.
I don't want to claim I am right. In my opinion we better use cooperative approach and work within the existing systm.
Use force to destroy each other, it is not the time.
Loriku
My brother Lorico,
Please think triple. Working within the existing system, now we have our constitution which guarantees every citizen to to freely express his/her idea. The idea of forming new politikal party is inherent to the spirit of the Constitution which as I said was wrote by the majority of fretilin in the Parliament. Why we must fear of a democratic defeat? Xanana could have advanced with CNRT as a political Party in year 2000. But he did not want to, because it would be counter productive from democratic perspective. It will gather all votes to CNRT and good bye Democracy. I clearly heard that, and also that short after this issue was leaked all the Fretilin leaders went to meet Xanana asking not to pursue for it would be negative to Fretilin. Xanana got compassion and I believe he adore Fretilin, he said okey, if you don't want then you should sign a National Pact. Every poltical Party signed it at the Democracy Field (Campo Pramuka). The opportunity for FRETILIN was realy wide with the backing of Xanana it could have done tremendous progress in the sublime objective of liberating People from illiteracy, hunger, poverty alias could have been brought this people to prosperity. We have a lot of money. That's why I said in my previous comment, Fretilin could have been accepted offer from many philontropic countries and financial bodies all over the world. I still remember one coment of Mr. Surik Mas regreting the position of the government to borrow money. What's wrong. Many countries throughout the world borrow money to advance their development plan. We could do the same to give a happy life to our people by building houses, infrastructures to give a pleasurable condition to the people to participate as government partners. The government of fretilin could do that and pay the money back from our oil!! Some of the offer are free from interest. We could have been satisfed our people and avoid this regretful crisis.Why? I don't believe the government didn't know how to do. There must be something behind that. As intelectual I guess you must put this in your mind and find the "Why". Now as everything is over one can not bar if others want to try their capability in contributing to the nation through democratic mechanism. As intelectual I really feel ashame when my fellow intelectual is trying to foment anti-democratic thoughts and behaviour. We struggle for the peole and not for slogans, Insigneas, Flags. I am from Fretilin and I am councious that Fretilin is not Holy Ghost. The people is, because from religious perspective mankind is the image of GOD. That's why the doctrine demands us to love each other. Now you said WAR, WAR, WAR. Is that what you learn from the church. Unless you are not Christian.
Divided Society!!!!???? I tel you even in Europe there was figting amongst tribes, ethnics, religions but latter they got the conscience. They build up integrated societies and leave in peace see each other as the same mankind that should love each other. Indonesia was a disassociated community. It came together due the spirit of nationalism shaped by colonialism. It happned everywhere in the world. We were indeed tribed but latter converged in one due to colonialism. My friend the important is CONSCIENCE of seeing each other as brothers and observe the GOLDEN PRICIPLES. If yoy say "If Fretilin loses we will resourse to war" then you are not intelectual. Because intelectual must imbue the GOLDEN PRINCIPLES.If you are concious of Golden Principles then you would say no to Revolution because we are already an Independent country.
With Love
Dear fellow,
Well my fellow, i am not in a position to give a tutorial on constitution. I honestly tell you the existence of any association is less important then the survival of the nation.
There is different way to understand the constitution and make the consitution works, To make constitution work never integrate any destructive association or party in the system. You have right to build your own party, but you have no right to foment destruction. For instance, Partidu republikano.
Loriku
Dear Fellow,
I come to the conclusion that you are already strictly consubstantial with political character deviated by those egocentric minds coming from mono-partidarist countries. Because if you say "the existence of any association is less important than the survival of the nation" means that only the existing political party in power has the capability to govern or more, has the right to represent the people, other associations do not represent the people. But remember free assembly of people, association and free of expression is guaranteed in our Constitution wrote by the majority of Fretilin in the Parliament. Your opinion gives clearly the idea which supports Mari Alkatiri's position that "Only Fretilin Guarantees Stability and instability. If Fretilin looses there will be war!!!!!
On Partido Republicano, a part from the past failure they are still timorese who can participate in the political life of the nation. I really believe they are not too fool to seize this critical situation to reverse to their former political view for TL. Come on friend, the important is observing their Political Direction. All must be in accordance with our constitution. Beyond this, I think the Court of appeal would not accept it in the race. My advise for you, be positive thinking and not allow yourself to be continuously captive of the past.
Fuanboot
Dear fellow,
Well, everyone talks about the consitution, but do you really understand what constitution is? Do you really understand how consitution works in a time of peace, war and transition or even in fragile democracy? I ask you never ever understand constitution in an ordinary sense.
I agree with you everyone has freedom of association and assembly,but freedom must not be used someone such as Mariano Saldanha to use freedom to destroy freedom and destroy our fragmanted society.
Also, I agree with you that they are not fool. They are smart. It is true that they will never reverse their view to their former political view. But I can only tell you they have many ways to destroy East Timor. Better stopped them now rather than too late.
If you think and you are aware of the suffering of our people, and difficult situation at that time you never again allow this kind of person or party to exist. Until now East Timor people has not recovered yet from this missery and depression that was result of his political attitude.
Now again, when the East Timorese leaders are in conflict and distrust among our leaders, Mariono stood to denegrate East Timor leaders through his existence as a person and party. As result the small people or who did not know him acted upon his political attitude and existence and began to intensify conflict. This is one of example.
Now the small people are to be blamed and face the consequence.
Remember, 21 % who supported autonomy are still in East Timor. This can be potential for on going destruction. They see Mariano as their leaders.
If Mariono Saldanha has good will for East Timor, he must wait for 10 years. Saldamha must aware of his condition that surround him. Things is getting worse and he claimed his party is the one has programs. So, this type of political manouver ensnared people into a serious bloody conflict. So, uneducated start think start to create instability.
Another, he calls his party republikno? what condition is creating now?
All things that happenned in East Timor is to destroy Fretilin.
Fretilin has done great things. We never portray our nation as an ungrateful nation. Trust and respect amd grateful to those who have done good for East Timor. Teach our people to love the the true. As Xanana said in his letter to Fretilin, " Fretilin teach me to love my land and my people."
So, Mariano is builder of internal destruction. He does not diserve to establish political party.
His rights for politics must be ceased. Only one rights; a right to live in East Timor.
To end, Fretilin will not rule forever, but Fretilin must lead for some years. As a political party and pioner of East Timor indepedence.That is the way we establsih our political culture and moral standard. We all must obey the law and only law can save our peace, unity and justice and progress.
Fretilin lay down the law. Fretilin, through Marii, has established a great example by obeying the law.
This is one example to see East Fretilin political direction and Marii's bravery to stand to defend oil and gas for East Timor even other East Timor national leaders try bogged Marri's down in the face of great power.
The future of East Timor is the hand of Xanana, Ramos Horta, Marii, Luolo, Amo Belo and others, but not Saldanha and Patidu Republikanu.
Adeus
Loriku Asswain
Hei Asswain,
You must be an ultra-nationalist. This is not good because causes you to make contradictive statements. You said Saldanhas have only one right "to live in TL" but how come the Court of appeal has registered their Party and allowed it to be declared officially. Are you going to stop that? Then you are against the law!!! How will be your method to hinder them? You can only issue propaganda to denegrate by keeping on mentioning their past history but you can not use violence to stop them because their party's existence is legal. Unless you catch them in flagrant instigating people to revolt against the state. We must interpret the Constitution as it is. It is not UNDANG2 DARURAT like Suharto's Subversive Law which was deliberately reserved margins for subjective interpretation. That's why President Xanana, even pressured to dissolve the Parliament and the Government last year, he did not succumb and it was in time of crisis!!!. Yes I agree Fretilin has made espectacular job that I think is very2 important to uphold its spirit. Luckless, just because to make Fretilin win Its leaders let it to be infiltrated by Suharto's collaborators who during the 4 years have turned the image of this historical party. It will kill Fretilin and my great concern is that if we continue to sleep you'll see the demise of this Party in a near future. That's why my view is not to pursue with Fretilin as Political Party. It is a great IDEAL that must be preserved, respected and adore forever. You said, we all must obey the law and Fretilin laid down the law. Now you must be aware that all these laws ar based in the constitution. All these laws are set up to rule the political life of the nation without discrimination. Then why you said Partido Republicano does not deserve to exist? Please my friend wash your brain. In a democratic society, the competition for the power lays in the hands of the people. Reflect on our deeds during 4 years if we have done something good for this people to conquere his sympathy. Now what happen if the Republicano has trillion of dollars and it promises to people to build every family a good house with facilities, free School, free medical care and in turn 90% of the people choose it!!!!??? Are you going to hinder? It is a suicide. You can only offer the best to atract people's option. So my friend as intelectual I as AILEBA oan just want to suggest you to give your valuable contribution to improve those mal practices shown so far and restore Fretilin. I will support you from my field "Fehuk Laran" I advise... don't show belligerent attitude toward our brothers Pro-Autonomy because it will harm your image along with Fretilin.
Bom dia
My fellow,
It is your theory. I hope East Timor people can accept saldanha and his party.
Never take any polilical advantage in East Timor to ruin and destroy East Timor.
My fellow, i don't think you use trillion dollar to look East Timor's people mercy to support republikanu. The great East Timor's people have certain moral standard and pinciples. People know well what is good and bad for them.
I still remain in my understanding to stick with united Fretilin and i always expect xanana, Ramos, Horta. Ruak and Amo Belo can work together as before to liberate their people, but not you and Saldanha.
Is you and Saldanha better than those leaders and party?
It is the way Saldanhya use money and use his evil intelectual to destroy east Timor and their leaders.
So, far i can tell you that you and Saldanha have no concious at all even it both do not understand how constitution and law should be constructed in a different period of time.
East Timor people will never associate with crimminal party lead by Mariano.
Do you think law is operated in isolation? please go and ask people who have expertise in law to explain to you.
I tell you that in East Timor people easily detect the crimminal in the street, but it is diffitult for East Timor people to undertand and detect intelectaul criminals that gradually strike East Timor to death.
Hopefully, one day Mariano and you no longer take East Timor law for granted, and I hope there must special measure to restrict their rights and manouver.
Thanks and I hope you enjoy reading
Loriku Asswain
My fellow you come to the conclusion. Let the Party exist and let the people choose. People will know whom would be better. Never use Historical threat to rebuke as it is indeed a blackmail action against constitution and democracy. Let people choose!!! you can only go and teach people or influence not to choose them but never go to the pools and direct the hands of any citizen to the box you whish.
Regards
My fellow,
Your party and associates are the enemies of the nation, intelectualise and organise crime. Intelectaul militia leaders never be allowed to have own political party in East Timor.
Let you to stop or let people to strike you and your party to death?
You must admit your self to the concious of East Timor people that you have commit to unspoken serious crime.
If you are free man and innocent man, I will never thought to say such as things, but you are disgraceful man who never has an distinction between bad and good.
But you enjoy the death of innocent people by using East Timor constitution, democrcay and freedom to celebrate your joy. Notorious killer!!!
You never suffer for East Timor consitution, democrcay and freedom. It belongs to the great East Timoresse people.
Thankyou
Loriku Asswain
My Dear,
How do you see things? Honouring a person that accepted the result of a democratic race or rewarding a patriot who distribute guns to kill its own people?
Come on, you are following the tracks of your African Brothers. Criticize Colonialism to latter on become the fusion of colonialism and tirany. Remember that you are in Timor-Leste and that the region will not allow you to practice this satanic ideology.
Fuan boot
My dear fellow,
Yes, some of Fretilin members have set another example how to obey the law. I hope you, Mariano Saldanha, will do the same things in the near future.
For me crime is crime.
Because you are lover maker so it will be good for you to visit him to wash his clothes and you can cook for him too and clean his shit. Because you are forgiver and lover.
If you want to argue about the distribution of guns beyond the law, i am ready for it.
As staring poing, if you want, let me establish my premise: It was a moral armament to protect nation from collapse. The intervention of Outsider forces is one of justification. The partidu Republikanu and the intention of estabslihing CNRT are some of the condition of moral armament.
I think you was with a good intention.
Do you agree? why?
Loriku Asswain
My Fellow....
Moral armament? Funny!!!!! You think your are in 12th century? You said everybody must obey the law, Constitution. Don't you see it was against Law? Don't you accept the outcome of the UN Commission of Inquiry? Don't you hear the verdict of Court in Dili? My dear you and your fellow Maputo group are going to bury Fretilin. And what guilt didi Saldanha do? He defended a political option which was accepted by the international community. The Autonomy have contested in the Referendum under UN auspices. It lost and Saldanha accepted the result. Why Saldanha is more democratic than you? This is not a crime. The killings perpetrated by Millitias and their Indonesian supportes were crimes like the distribution of guns by Rogerio to kill his own people. You support that? If yes then you are indeed an indirect criminal. People could say you might be an intelectual manager behind the existing violence in Dili.
Fuan boot
My fellow,
I hope you can read my email again.
For me crime is crime.
If you may read it again, you will find that my intention is to debate the issue beyond the law.
But, if you don't understand it is your choice. I can tell you this, in East Timor there are lot of people like you. Fight first, but always understand things later on.
But remember, Mariano, his party and his associates, for instance like you, must pay the price. Death or alive.
Loriku Asswain
Asswain,
What is your argument for debate on the distribution of guns? Please see the UN commission of inquiry report. Are you intending to build Timor-Leste as an isolated world. Come on man, don't be too haughty. Hitler, Duvalier, Suharto, Pinochet, Nicolae Ceasesco, and other dictators all over the world have been defeated by the waves of democracy. Nao ha ditadura que dura. I repeat you are not in Africa. Please discern and decide to respect others option.
Fuan boot
Dear fellow,
Please ignore the issue that i raise to discuss with you.
I hope you can have some better knowledge.
For me, i never dream to be a leader. Person like you and Mariono must learn more before take lead. Please understand what crime is, at least and aslo what discussion is. Your way of thinking is to create deadlock in discussion.
I respect any options for any East Timor people, but I can't spoil any type of criminalisation in political process in East Timor. It is my obligation to defend East Timor. Others will do their part to strike such party to death.
I tell you if Mariano never commit any type of crime both direct or indirect, i will never fight againts him.
Are you aware the enormous harm and depression of his political attitude on East Timor people?
You are totally insane. East Timor is not a dictatorship country. How many political parties in East Timor at the moment?
You have taken democrcay, freedom and constitutional government for granted to build a serrious destruction force within East Timor in East Timor. Even crimimal has right to estabslih political party?
Come on my fellow,
This type of insanity thinking will never lead East Timor.
You never blame any country or person as a dictator. Any type of political government depends on its political context.
May be you know US president Clinton. He says if you don't you the history, social, and cultural system, you will do more harm that good."
So, without such as understanding, you and Mariono will only destroy East Timor. This is ongoing militia actvities.
I tell you there is no 100% democracy and freedom in the world.
If East Timor has law that allow death penalty, you and Mariano diserve to enjoy that death penalty. Hung you both up!!!
Zero tolerance for such man.
Loriku Asswain
Dear fellow,
Please ignore the issue that i raise to discuss with you.
I hope you can have some better knowledge.
For me, i never dream to be a leader. Person like you and Mariono must learn more before take lead. Please understand what crime is, at least and aslo what discussion is. Your way of thinking is to create deadlock in discussion.
I respect any options for any East Timor people, but I can't spoil any type of criminalisation in political process in East Timor. It is my obligation to defend East Timor. Others will do their part to strike such party to death.
I tell you if Mariano never commit any type of crime both direct or indirect, i will never fight againts him.
Are you aware the enormous harm and depression of his political attitude on East Timor people?
You are totally insane. East Timor is not a dictatorship country. How many political parties in East Timor at the moment?
You have taken democrcay, freedom and constitutional government for granted to build a serrious destruction force within East Timor in East Timor. Even crimimal has right to estabslih political party?
Come on my fellow,
This type of insanity thinking will never lead East Timor.
You never blame any country or person as a dictator. Any type of political government depends on its political context.
May be you know US president Clinton. He says if you don't you the history, social, and cultural system, you will do more harm that good."
So, without such as understanding, you and Mariono will only destroy East Timor. This is ongoing militia actvities.
I tell you there is no 100% democracy and freedom in the world.
If East Timor has law that allow death penalty, you and Mariano diserve to enjoy that death penalty. Hung you both up!!!
Zero tolerance for such man.
Loriku Asswain
My fellow,
I never support any dictatorship specially killing people. But any political decison to enforce law and order is absolute necessary.
I never intend to isolate East Timor as you do. You are the one and mariaono have intended and committed to destroy East Timor.
Loriku Asswain
Asswain,
You know what causes the happening of big catastrophes across the world? It was Political criminal decisions. The invasion happened in East Timor that saved 2/3 of Timorese was due to Suharto's criminal decision. Now you support political decision to enforce law by infringing the Constitution? Distributing guns to the civilian is a healthy political decision to enforce law? Come on man, I suspect you might having a gun with you but remember.... never can be hidden inside the drawer unnotice. The truth will come to the surface and I will come to visit you in the jail.
Fuanboot
My fellow,
I hope you understand what crime is and how crime can be constructed,frabricated and forcibly conditioned to happen.
I hope you can distinguish a liberated crime and the passion of crime.
You need some basic knowlede so we can discover what crime is and what is not a crime, but all happens in Timor are crimes of brothers.
Not all killing are crime or illegal. There are lawful killing.
I hope you can see me in jail and i want to see you death and burried in santa Cruz soon.
But if you are genuine man who suffer for East Timor, i want you to be alive.
Loriku Asswain
Ha, ha, ha, ha,
Crime of brothers??? Waoooo this is particularism in assessing a crime. It can not happen in TL. If there was a co d'etat and the government at the final resource was forced to shot, that could be construed as lawful kiling. But that distribution of guns to civilian was against TL Constitution. Please read the report of COI.
Well my brother I guess I am very near to you and I only spoke about jail but you spoke on Santa Cruz. I am very sad you are really thirsty of blood. Be prepare to take the lead of this country but you must forget using repressive and mortal approaches. If you had put a finger in the liberation of this country you must have felt another finger which was mine.
Fuan boot
Hy my fellow,
I hope you can laught and try to understand.
As a person of free nation, i have different views, understanding and justification that the destribution was not only ones fault.
But any way, i hope one day the case can be reopened for legal batle.
See you
Loriku Asswain
Asswain,
Thank you sooo much. It was not only one's fault. We need to hear from camarada Rogerio. He will certainly open his mouth at times of psycological squeezing. He ever said, I did it under instruction from somebody else and this guy must be the brain. He must shoulder the main charge and rest, those executors that I believe are more that a 100 will share the moderate charges accordingly.
My fellow come we work together to save Fretilin from collapse.
Fuanboot
Good Day all, nifty message board I have found It very helpful & it has helped me out loads
I hope to be able to contribute & guide other users like this board has helped me
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